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BFCSA: FOS needs to demand complete copy of client file including the ANZ Service Calculator

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This is an ongoing problem at the Financial Ombudsman's Service.  FOS say if you do not provide your current financial details they can close your file.  We have found case managers suggesting the details are required to see if "meeting of the minds."  Sadly, this is a crime scene of sub prime lending and an abominable magnitude of misery.   Case Managers are overwhelmed with the number of new cases of complaints against our Major Banks on a  daily basis.  These case are treated as disputes because ASIC refuse to understand the long term criminality of activity in the banking sector.

Our Member states:  - "I feel if I supply my current financial details to FOS they are refusing to investigate.  FOS are not addressing the misleading information placed on the LAF, nor the Maladministration in lending.  Clearly the loan is not sustainable, ANZ has admitted in a letter to me was ANZ's default entry and therefore false information placed on the LAF by the bank after I signed and without my knowledge."

 FOS do look into Maladministration in Lending and there have been a number of successful outcomes.   Do not fall for "awareness trap" and we know how to fix that one.   You were aware of affordability issues when buffer loans stopped (recently) and aware of fraud when these wretched banks were finally forced/shamed into handing over the Loan Application Form that you should have received a copy (in law) of at point of signing.  You did not receive the copy until 2012.  No-one received a copy at signing  (across the nation) despite it being a legal requirement.  You should write to FOS case manager and tell them:  "It seems grossly unfair that we are bullied into revealing our current financial position and the bank has not been ordered to give us our complete client file, despite agreements between ASIC, EDRs and the Bank Members of FOS.  I am happy to supply my financial situation after I receive all my documents from the Bank and after your prelim investigation is complete. Then it can become a fair discussion in resolving the dispute. " 

This is a case of Maladministration in Lending.  The complaint is relating to what the victim's  financial position was at the point of signing and clearly the loan ought to have been rejected by ANZ.  The loan was clearly only serviceable from further debt and further "buffer" lending.  The member was paying the payments (ie affordability) with the bank’s money.  If a complainant can "appear" to afford a reduced payment right now that is clearly UNSUSTAINABLE and the victim cannot guarantee he/she will ever reach 30 years in living, let alone pay off the entire mortgage.  That was the bank plot: "imploding loans within 6 years of 30 year contract."

This is a crime scene.  State Police cannot investigate a bank.  Only Australian Federal Police can.  The AFP are busy chasing Nigerian Scams which they cannot act upon so its a do nothing approach.  The AFP refuse to investigate because ASIC hasn't asked them to.  ASIC refuse to instruct the AFP without Government Policy.  

So write to Kev 24/7.  "Please Mr Prime Minister Rudd, instruct the AFP to look into Low Doc Loan 100% Toxic Scandal and also FULL DOCS 18% Toxic.  AFP are not very busy right now.  If BFCSA have found 1200 victims of this non scandal we are embroiled in then it should be a pieces of cake for the AFP.  I will assist them if a little foreign to them.  If there are 200,000 families as we suspect, and the 1200 victims are a KEY INDICATOR of widespread bank looting of assets then all the more reason you should be boosting staff numbers for the AFP.  Tell them not to hire ex ASIC buffoons...they are useless and subject of a Senate Inquiry."

"Please refer to my 12 page letter to you dated 24 December 2009 and on this very issue."


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  • doyla66
    doyla66 Friday, 28 June 2013

    How can corruption by the banks be treated as disputes?
    The only way I could keep up the payments was by "Buffer Loans". (isn't that illegal?)
    Then when issuing of these ceased it was sell what I acquired over a life
    time of hard work. This all happened in approx 6 years. So much for 30 year loans.
    I told FOS this, but they still pretty much tell me it's the borrowers fault for
    signing the LAF. I said the broker filled it in after signing, so then it's "have you taken action against
    the broker" or "It's not the banks fault they didn't have to check affordability being a low doc loan.
    As I said before, how can the banks lend hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars to single mums,
    pensioners, ordinary mums and dads without checking, just because it's called a "Low Doc" loan.
    Apparently affordability isn't an issue.
    "Just get their deeds" was the order of the day.
    And that idiot who said "You can't legislate against stupidity"can someone ask him if
    their is legislation against massive corruption and abetting corruption?... because that's what he's doing !

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Saturday, 29 June 2013

    Have you asked FOS what they think of the Schmidt Anor vs Violet Homes case and appeal case?
    It's looking like FOS and COSL are getting tougher on borrowers and expecting them to come up with everything by themselves and certainly not as helpful as they have been in the past in giving borrowers clues as to what to come up with next.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Saturday, 29 June 2013

    Nab wanted my husband and I to provide details of our financial position whilst the court case was proceeding. As I recall the young Solicitor forwarded through a detailed form for us to complete with everything except what color undies we may have been wearing on that day.I remember he was pretty agitated when when would not complete them. Why? did they want them was my question. Didn't really get a satisfactory answer. !!! Not surprising the answer I mean. Between the Nab and the lawyers you never got straight answers that is if you ever received a reply of any kind. Both of them had the happy knack of ignoring you mostly. The Solicitor always passed the buck and said he would have to get instructions from Nab but mostly he just never got back to you. In other words I was a pain in the butt and did not deserve an answer lest they incriminate themselves. Weak as water.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Saturday, 29 June 2013

    Banks and lenders do not supply whole file to FOS etc - true - that's becoming obvious from the information flow from FOS etc to borrowers.
    If FOS etc don't ask for the information they won't get it. Even if they do ask for it they may not get it. And even then they may not tell the borrower what they received from the FSP.
    One solution is for borrower to supply our own copies of paperwork, notes on phone calls, etc that were supplied to the FSP over time. Also to keep referring to important documents that should be recorded on the FSPs file as received.
    Loan Service Calculator: FSP won't supply that, even if Privacy Act is mentioned by borrower? One possible reason is that the Privacy Act refers to the use of our/borrower's data. The LAFs where figures have been tampered with feature figures that aren't our/borrower's data. Even a small change to our data is not our data. Ask for the data on the LSC that is the actual data we/borrowers supplied to the broker/FSP as part of our application. If no data received it's logical to conclude that fraud has also occurred on the Loan Service Calculator and thus the LSC forms part of the evidence for the Fraud Case presented to whatever police to get Police Report Case number. Even if Police won't/don't investigate the existence of a police report number does carry some clout.
    My guess is that the police are waiting until there are enough fraud reports of a similar or related nature before they can attend to these at all. They have to justify the expenditure as it's across several jurisdictions and there have been funding cuts everywhere. Still no excuse, of course, as this has been going on for years. But it's the way that the public service works - critical mass needed, squeaky wheels, etc; case by case/variants in cases creates false impressions/gives them the excuse to get out of it if they want to or short of staff.
    Does anyone have any further knowledge or feedback to share on this - all input & experience most welcome ...

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Saturday, 29 June 2013

    Very cute, Jon Denovan.
    Also the changes to FOS to downgrade it to the standard of COSL - yuk!
    We'll beat you yet with our greater intelligence on the subject of loan fraud.
    You and the brokers gave it away on the AB site ...
    I'm looking forward to seeing Gadens staff on the dole queue and you, Jon Denovan, publicly disgraced and dismissed for solicitor misconduct.

  • Denise
    Denise Saturday, 29 June 2013

    Hi Lisa You do great work but this one needs correction: Fraud by Bankers you need to get the PM to order AFP to investigate. So Fraud against the nation, the commonwealth gets very little attention. Fraud by brokers - go to state Police. But Brokers did not INVENT the service calculator, they only used it like trained monkeys as even they did not understand the complex tax concessiuons (one size fits all). As they say: "if we had no calculator how would we3 know what income to put on the LAF!" Too true! If you take case to State Police, then ASIC will say "cannot comment because its in hands of state police. Police cannot investigate the bank only the broker. Broker says we followed BDM Bank orders....." Meanwhile two years wasted and you lot are out of time. That's what ASIC want!!!!! Lisa, you are playing into their hands. The FRAUD IN LOW DOCS is not the Brokers its THE BANK SERVICE CALCULATOR. I keep trying to teach you that difference.......Write to Kevin 07 and ask him for an order to have AFP investigate EVERY case where a service calculator was used by banks to approve loans. Meantime tell him you believe there should be a FREEZE on all payments pending outcome of AFP investigation. Easy! I want Kev to receive 1200 letters by next wednesday. Start writing...... [email protected]

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Saturday, 29 June 2013

    Thanks, Denise.
    So FOS have clearly misled a borrower ...
    I'll drop Kevin a letter now ...
    Thanks for the tip! Ed: Go for it and well done Lisa...denise

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Sunday, 30 June 2013

    I'll join you Lisa in writing to him. I wrote to him in Nov 2009 but no response so here we go again.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Sunday, 30 June 2013

    I sent him an email already.
    Come on everyone we can do it!
    We NEED to do it, 1200 letters to K. Rudd
    Short letters, long letters it dose'nt matter as long as we all send him one.
    This all helps one another and Densise

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Tuesday, 02 July 2013

    My letter is in the making too. A bit of cut and paste but at least I will be consistant! I sent everything to FOS, the bank did ask for my tax returns before processing my loan application via email. They also asked for my last five years when I was in contact with the Customer Experience Manager earlier in the year. Each time I sent them information, I sent it to FOS as well. I don't think there is anything left to ask for. None of my financials since obtaining the loan to now show any income as I am operating at a loss. I am only surviving with my family's financial help.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Tuesday, 02 July 2013


    I sent my email before I realised others were doing it, we are all now waiting in anticipation. I also put in mine to please make sure it was passed on to PM Rudd because of the serious nature of systemic fraud and ASIC's incompetence.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 03 July 2013

    Nab undeniably took advantage of us. We were already heavily indebted to Nab and our security was limited to our homes. Nab accordingly had the homes valued but these were overinflated valuations. The homes were in a rural location. According to the closest Business Nab, rural locations are only valued at 60% of the property value. ie: Valued at $100k only $60K utilised in assessing the loan application. Then outstanding debt is subtracted from that value figure. This is the amount which can be borrowed. This taken into account put us out of the picture for a loan.
    Our 1st loan application from Nab rural location was denied based on the above and other attributing factors being drought and the Loan Officers knowledge of the Business intended for purchase. Nab never reported this to the appropriate credit reporting agency.
    A business plan provided by us indicated a set amount required.
    30 days after the initial interview we were informed of the declined application. Within a few days of that decline we were informed by a Broker that the loan had been approved by the Nab city branch. The Broker had never had any contact with any of the applicants and did not know us from a bar of soap. The Broker provided a business plan to Nab which had been elaborated on.
    THIS WAS IDENTIFIABLE BY THE MONETARY FIGURE REQUESTED. This was explained to FOS. Nab had lied about the lost file.
    As FOS had all the necessary details of date, time, loan officers name Fos did not have any excuse not to follow up. FOS could have had Nab produce employment details etc and contact the original loan officer, but they did not. NO ELECTRONIC FILES COULD BE FOUND OF THE LOAN ASSESSMENT OR ANY RECORDS. In this day and age I find this a load of hogwash. Nab have hit the DELETE button on this one. This is the type of inappropriate activity that conspires within the banking system. FOS could have and should have been pro active instead of sitting on their hands and believing whatever lies Nab spun. I emailed Mr. Clyne with this information regarding Nab's lies but of course all Nab did was DENY my accusations. Standard for Nab.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 03 July 2013

    I would like to hear what members and guests think of my last post. I believe it is a true indication of what can be expected of banks and EDR's. So sneaky, so dollar driven.

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